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Post by wiilyr on Mar 4, 2006 15:57:56 GMT -5
World War II discussion here.
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Post by Tyual on Mar 4, 2006 22:16:52 GMT -5
Let's just go ahead, say the name, and get it over with: Hitler.
Idiot and genius. Politically, and economically, the guy was a genius. He pulled a ruined Germany from the slums and turned it into a dominating world power. He was a pretty good militaristically, except that 1) He allied with the Japanese, who were idiots. 2) He spread his troops too thin, by trying to claim too much area too quickly, much like Ancient Rome did.
He was a dang good orator. He could step to a podium and bring thousands to complete silence. He just had that leadership quality.
However, his fault was in his views on humanity. He believed that by genoiciding people, he could and would create the perfect society. He never thought that the rest of us might like society the way it is. Nice and diverse.
Although, I still think he'd have taken Europe without the US's interference. The US jumped in as a result of Japan's stupidity, and thus his alliance with Japan is what caused his downfall.
However, he need to be stopped, because obviously mass genoicide isn't acceptable. (Although, I have times when people aggitate me and I think he had the right idea just based at the wrong group of people.)
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Post by 2bfoundwanting on Jul 5, 2006 18:31:11 GMT -5
OOOH man. World War II is like.. my love. I mean.. obviously its a terrible period in history, but I am beyond fascinated with it. I do all my history projects on it, read books, watch movies.. LOVE IT.
Band of Brothers anyone? Catch 22? GOOD STUFF. The part I find most intriguing is DDAY
But on the topic of Hitler. Its hard to talk about him with most people because most people will look at you like your a crazy racist lunatic if you compliment anything about him. But in reality it is true. He was an AMAZING orator and his leardership skills were likewise. He started out small, asking for one small country and then another and France and England were stupid and tried to appease him and then BAM World War II.
I love to see movies on it and I especially love seeing authentic pictures from it. It just makes my imagination go wild. There is so much to learn and to understand. There is the concentration camps which would take a lifetime to look at in itself and then there are all the political aspects and the military movements, the social aspects taking place in Germany and the US and everywhere else.
so interesting. so.. terribley interesting
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Post by seffy on Jul 6, 2006 3:22:05 GMT -5
Hitler was a Psychotic with a good mouth. He was prone to fits of violant rage and could talk his way out of it afterwards, making the guy he just attacked his friend. Yes, he was a genius, but not necassarily a good one. Hitler was also a religious fanatic and a History buff. It was because of these subjects, believe it or not, that he chose the Italians as his allies. Benitto Mussolini was like minded to Hitler in his views, but that just made it easy for Htler to bring him on-side. Hitler's real interest was in the country's spiritual connection (the Catholic Church) and their history (the Roman Empire). He believed that with these assets behind him, he would be invincible. His views about creating the perfect Aeryan (sp) race was foolish. There is no such thing as a pure blood race anymore and hasn't been for hundreds of years. There hasn't been a single country in the whole world that hasn't been invaded, ruled over etc etc. With each influx of foreign people, for whatever the reason, comes the mingling of peoples and, therefore, the contamination of the bloodline. So, his idea for the perfect German people was lunacy rather than genius. It was also impossible for him to achieve while he was in power because his people would be based around him and, while his girlfriend, Eva Braun, was German, he was Austrian. So how could he create the perfect German race when he himself contaminated the gene pool?
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Post by moogman on Jul 6, 2006 3:29:11 GMT -5
one rule for one one rule for another
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Post by Tyual on Jul 6, 2006 15:02:20 GMT -5
There's a fine line between genious and insanity, Seffy. So fine that you can stand on both sides of it and be extremly good in both fields. This was the case with Hitler. He was a great speaker, leader, and he helped reform a slummed Germany into an economical and political power.
Like Lisi, I'm fascinated with WWII. There's a lot to learn from it. The important thing is that we take the time to learn the lessons from it.
As for his Aryan race, that was on the insanity side. Hitler himself did not fit the perfect human being he wanted. So yes, he himself could not be the perfect race. Just because you're a genius doesn't make you a good one, as you said, Seffy.
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Post by 2bfoundwanting on Jul 6, 2006 15:51:04 GMT -5
Lets just get this out of the way right now.
Hitler is an evil man. What happened to people during World War II was terrible and unforgivable.
Okay, now that that is done, we can talk about the war without worrying about debates (which your question seffy, was scarily leading towards) Those two are stipulated. Now knowing that doesn't mean we cant find things interesting in those times periods or find Hitler an interesting case study. True?
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Post by Tyual on Jul 6, 2006 16:03:48 GMT -5
Lol, Lisi =P Debates are fun though Actually I agree, I enjoy studying history, debating it doesn't make a lot of sense. It happened already, it's not something that's currently ongoing. The important thing is to learn from the past so we can make the future better. And there is a lot to learn from World War II
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Post by seffy on Jul 6, 2006 19:07:33 GMT -5
History repeats and mankind seldom learns from it's mistakes. Yes, I know WW2 was a terrible time and that Hitler was a bad man. The problem is, there are still Hitlers around today. We depose one from power and, ten years later, up pops another. Pol Pot in Cambodia, Slobodan Milosevic in the former Yugoslavia, the crisis in Rewanda and even Saddam Hussein. All these leaders have been tried and prosecuted for crimes against humanity and Genocide 'since' the second world war. So, what has been learned? How many times must we 'learn' our mistakes? I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that there is yet room for debate over ww2 and Adolf Hitler. However, maybe you're right. Maybe the best way to look at those horrible times is to see what good came from them, and there was some good. Science advanced dramatically after the war, thanks for the most part, to German scientists. The Germans were unbelievably advanced thanks to people like Werner Von Braun, the so-called Godfather of the rocket.. Not only did the Germans have rockets before the Allies, they also had jet engines for their aircraft (the ME 262, a German fighter, was the first ever jet aircraft. If I remember rightly, the BSA Meteor was the first Allied jet aircraft and this didn't come into service until after the war had finished). There are even rumours around that a secret team of scientists under an SS General called Hans Kammler developed Anti-Gravity propulsion in secret underground laboratories in the Wencaslas mines and another mine just outside Waldenburg in Poland, something that we still don't have today. There is also all the medical breakthroughs that occured from the war. Though, it's probably best not to get involved in a discussion about those.
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Post by 2bfoundwanting on Jul 6, 2006 20:01:19 GMT -5
ANTI GRAVITY LABS? LIKE WHERE YOU CAN FLY!
holy canole. i want to get my hands on one of those!
Sorry, not meaning to trivialize what you said. You make some very good and valid points. However, I do think that society as a whole has learned from the war. I just think there are still some crazies out there. But Im not in the debate mood right now, so I wont try to make any amazing points.
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Post by Tyual on Jul 7, 2006 1:11:31 GMT -5
Sure, you can always debate things. But history, why waste the time debating it? Lets just make sure we learn from it.
True, there were great scientific and medical breakthroughs, not all of it posotive though. New ways to kill people were developed. However, so were a lot of medical advancements as the result, and the major developments in airplanes. That's one of the most astounding things to me, the airplane developments.
The Germans were way more advanced than us during the war for a long time. Eventually we caught on, but still, they were far enough ahead that if Japan hadn't made us mad enough to drop the A-Bomb, they'd have probably still won.
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Post by seffy on Jul 7, 2006 8:32:46 GMT -5
ANTI GRAVITY LABS? LIKE WHERE YOU CAN FLY! And more besides. In 1956, the heads of three of the largest aviation companies, including Lockheed-Martin and Lear, announced that anti-gravity engines were coming. However, they never arrived and the subject has since fallen into the realms of Conspiracy Theory legend. Anti-gravitic engines would eliminate the need for fossil fuels and would greatly increase the speed of travel while reducing the cost. As usual, that's not something the money men want to hear, so the subject was quickly dropped and swept under the carpet. Now Conspiracy Theories abound about oil companies and governments covering up anti-gravity engines because of the billions they would lose in revenue. The world would be a far better place if it wasn't for money.
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Post by Tyual on Jul 7, 2006 11:50:55 GMT -5
Lol, they've made guys disappear more than once because their discoveries could cost them money. A guy in the US a while back, my parents were telling me about, from like the late 70s, found some way for vehicles to run better and off less of whatever mineral or whatever he was using in comparison to oil. It was cheaper too. Conincidentally that guy hasn't been heard from since. Just went poof.
Wish I remembered the whole story, but it shows the money men reealllly don't like it when you find ways to take their money.
For the anti-gravity engines - THAT WOULD BE AWESOME! =D That's all I have to say about it.
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Post by 2bfoundwanting on Jul 7, 2006 13:33:32 GMT -5
Agreed. Anti gravityness = awesomeness
And it really is terrible how that happens. That people dissapear because they are going to make the world a better, but cheaper, place. I cant even imagine what life would be like without any currency of some kind, and while it could be worse, there is soo much possibility for it to be better.
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